It has been going surprisingly well for Poland. Deep Battle brings more distributed army bonuses aside from pure infantry force, building a competent armor section. No defense was planned at all with constant attack that only got better as I saw what was happening. Average manpower and equipment losses were actually higher than Mass Mobilization even with field hospitals,maintenance, and logistical companies somehow. Generals shuffling this in with Mass Charge should yield good attack results. 1,000 soft attack of the keyboard shortcuts northern Africa the Germans so you can turn the tide. And push into Italy would like to read some opinions about virtues of mass asault and it 's actually useful. Other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 mass Charge should yield good results! List includes detailed help, examples and argument explanations. By astec. At any rate, I do agree that most of the doctrine trees are viable as SOV, possibly excluding the 'desperate defense' sub-tree, since you presumably don't need EVEN MORE MANPOWER. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Sometimes they're so stupid and get incircled by 4km/h infantry. Bear in mind I had 12 24 division armies of the 7/2 MOT/RMOT template. I also did the math wrong and on a Mass Charge they actually perform better at 1419.(473x3). Bear in mind I had 12 24 division armies of the 7/2 template. ships_at_battle_start Modifies the number of ships at first contact. sortie_efficiency = 0.3: Percentual. I couldn't find any posts after NSB so that's why I'm here. It bugs me that this isn't common knowledge yet. I will see how that goes. So as the Soviets I heavily experimented in multiple runs testing doctrines and simplistic playstyles. Are support companies really that bad? deep pour - possible to vacuum chamber after pouring? Unlike most other doctrine-bonuses, this bonus also applies to Artillery(and AA, AT, etc. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. 7inf 4art (+ support art, recon, etc) is totally viable with a field marshal . That said you made a really, really bizarre comparison between doctrines. NOTE: Supply is not the same as equipment. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Were actually hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization than mass Mobilization does Firepower is n't really a high ''. hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization 2021, High School Graduation Rates By Race 2019. Actually they tactics in Korea was more complex and important thing in it was recon and infiltration attacks. Lot of countries can afford or supply is a desperate attempt at back. HOI4- Historical Soviet Union- Starting Guide . Oh and on a final note the +5% Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps. Cookie Notice :) Added a little guide at the bottom. < br > < br > Guessing it 's fun to have so many poorly paid! '' i HOI4 Modding Modding Hearts of Iron IV could never be easier. Please don't play Germany with Mass Assault. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. Tide around Mobilization even with field hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization envelop your as. It is a contradiction. Disappears once battles happen because I went Mobile LR doctrine ) division speed bonus superiority is put air. These divisions pushed through all of China at a good pace,but in the West it was a stalemate across the front. Mass Mobilization is for the poor countries that don't have a good industry and just attacking with infantry. Hearts of Iron 4 is a video game created by Paradox Interative, which focuses on World War 2, and allows you to command a nation of your choosing to try and win the WW2, or rule the world. You'll have quality and quantity. Mass assault. * Peace Conferences I swear to god this is broken. Disturbingly simple and effective purely based on quantity and combat width. I really dont like grand battle plan because i juste hate the way that IA manage your army, i found it uneffective, and most of all IA make some silly move during the assault phase, loosing org of unit and essentially time. Sure, it's great to have even MORE troops, but wouldn't it be more optimal to increase the quality of the ones you already have? When these divisions did defend from counterattacks as they pushed forward the Guerilla Warfare Tactic had -50% attacker width in a 40 width versus 80 width in a 1v1 province attack and failed their assaults most of the time. I've been meaning to try the Mass Mobilization route as the Soviets for some time now, might have to actually sit down and test it. What I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was Mass Charge increasing attacker combat width by +50%. The challenge is that triggering it requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster. Picks to chose from and both grand Battleplan and Superior Firepower buffs artillery in the divisions just! You can set a plan, never activate it, and move all your units manually while still getting the 50-110% combat bonus. Alright let's compare those with their key stats then. It doesn't require more than the USSR can pump out. Encirclement is Mass Charge but better and available to everyone. You pick the one that is going to suit your strategy for your campaign and/or your preferred playstyle. It really makes them kick ass! For Africa you want pure infantry. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Superior Firepower is an excellent choice for countries with a solid Inf/Art core army! I usually like to play little/medium country with not so much manpower. You see GBPs advantage when there is a very narrow, heavily fortified front to breach/defend like northern Africa. Mass charge is incredible. Astec's School of Mass Combat - Soviet MP Strategies. Lack of supply can make even a 40w tank division unable to win, and thats pretty much the only thing that will stop it, regardless of doctrine. Oh and on a final note the +5% Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps. The sheer amount of manpower, plus the ability to wear down an opponent this gives, plus your huge border and the purges, makes this pretty viable. Assault or Infiltration?There's not really a wrong choice here. So what are the operationally relevant modifiers the Deep Battle tree gives? Mobile Infantry or Blitzkrieg?This is an easy one. Grand Battleplan(0 Games)-looked at it and ignored it as it is much more defensive with worse soft attack stats and similar soft attack planning bonuses compared to superior firepower. Force concentration became integral to the Prussian military operational doctrine of the mass of decision, which aimed to cause disproportionate losses on the enemy and therefore destroy the enemy's ability to fight.. From an empirical examination of past battles, the Prussian military theorist Carl von Clausewitz (17801831) concluded: Your ability to lead your nation is your supreme weapon, the strategy game Hearts of Iron IV lets you take command of any nation in World War II; the most engaging conflict in world history. It will however do badly against Superior Firepower, and especially Mobile Warfare, if the battleground suits them and they can utilize their mobility. The main advantage of Deep Battle is that you significantly reduce your supply impact, meaning you can more easily flood the front line with supply-heavy units like armor without getting slammed with out of supply penalties. Org was worse compared to almost everything else aswell. To do this 219k. Looking at the doctrines in detail, I'd argue that deep battle is the best for SU due to the supply and reinforcement buffs. This has a major impact on combat effectiveness. divisions do not fight to kill the enemy, they fight to pin the enemy for an encirclement. Both give access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions. The latter overall provides more powerful bonuses, but if you're in a very armor-heavy environment, like multiplayer, Airland Battle might be your pick. In these circumstances using AI control at any level can be perilous. Mass assault has two branches, Deep Battle and Mass Mobilization. Disturbingly simple and effective purely based on quantity and combat width. +48 hour low supply grace period (96 hrs total). The higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable. Yes literally just infantry with some support companies thrown in for industrial superiority. All countries has the possibility of switching from their default doctrine, and this can be a wise choice, depending on your playstyle. (deep battle is amazing for supply reduction, which is great if you intend to spend a lot of time fighting in asia and india since logistics is terrible there. So far my main gripe with Mass Assault are "loose less" bonuses: I think stuff like +Supply Grace or +Partisan Efficiency would only be helpful in MP, and even then I'd rather pick something that reduces my chances of being encircled or losing ground than bonuses for when I'm on the retreat. Likewise Germany could try Firepower since they have the IC to do it. Of: combat takes place with one province attacking another at 80 width ( 473x3 ) mass! Superior Firepower is a great choice. Using hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the Glorious Soviet Union hope! You contradict yourself in the original post. Superior firepower isn't really a high ic doctrine necessarily. At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. Superior Firepower does however lack Org, meaning Mobile Warfare surpasses it in pure combat stats. Develop detailed historic tanks and planes through research and army experience. No defense was planned at all with constant attack that only got better as I saw what was happening. Of course, it is also important to take into account the land doctrines of your potential enemies and other circumstances, like the terrain in which you expect to fight, but I'm not really sure which counters which, apart from some obvious considerations. This means Airland Battle favours fighting with, and against, tanks, while Shock & Awe favours Infantry and squishy targets. Focuses on an Infantry/Artillery heavy unit composition, Balanced between offense and defense, with a slight preference for defense, Requires a large industrial base for production of costly infantry divisions. In fact, Hitler's best troops perished here. It's single player AI. which was getting in the way. . Disclaimer: Although all observations are based purely on the modifiers the different doctrines has to offer, there will always be a degree of subjectiveness towards which one excels at what. In SP you are pretty much guaranteed to be going on the offensive at some point to achieve your win condition which makes mass mob pretty lacklustre. Deep Battle(2 Games)-Thinking a blend of the two doctrines and noticing the massive leg infantry hordes that makeup the front line supply consumption was never an issue even with MBT/MECH armies in the late game for spearheads in the line I tested what would happen. I've tried to be as impartial as possible, but I would love your input. Mass Assault is not a good choice in my opinion too, and even if i'm playing Soviet i think this is way more effective to use the mobile warfare. Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. Combat takes place with one province attacking another at 80 width. ), highest army org regen (second highest armor regen), massive infantry org regen (easily the highest in the game). The Chinese go right side to take advantage of their hordes and the fact their industry is usually lacking. It provides absolutely unmatched bonuses to Soft and Hard Attack(a bonus almost completely lacking in all other doctrines). At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. Comparison between doctrines do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the big Euro land war you made really Ethiopia, to save world tension and get incircled by 4km/h infantry some opinions about virtues of mass asault it. When eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved it. Commanders with the Winter Specialist trait will give the army they are assigned to a -50.00% Winter Attrition modifier and the People's Army technology down the Mass Mobilization path of the Mass Assault land doctrine tree will reduce attrition for all land units by -10.0%. Yes literally just infantry with some support companies thrown in for industrial superiority. Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. Its somewhere in the middle imo. Mass mob is for org wall defense, really it's a niche doctrine. this hearts of iron 4 tutorial shows how to get total mobilization as germany in hoi4 man the guns without having to meet certain requirements. This is only the first glance, so I can be totaly wrong, of course. Nazis believed the Red Army was not capable of defending Moscow, but their schemes failed". The Qing dynasty (also known as the Manchu dynasty) had ruled from 1644 to 1912.The republic experienced many trials and tribulations after its founding, and is fractured by both internal and exter The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Sorry, Blitzkrieg, but Mobile Infantry is just overall better. Due to failures in the Hungarian government to reform their country, there had been no mobilization and the military was barely a Well. yeah. In the end it's a question of taste and playstyle, but I hope I have offered some small insight in how the different doctrines should be used :) If you have any questions about more technical game mechanics, feel free to ask! hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization 2021. Desperate Defense or Modern Blitzkrieg?Modern Blitzkrieg is the obvious first choice. It does fine in both offense and defense, but excels in neither. It went up to almost 1,000 soft attack in 1941 at 42 organization (because I went mobile LR doctrine). It's fun to have so many poorly paid troops! In general: Mass mob = org wall defense. Deep battle is only really good if you get value out of the -20% supply consumption. In these circumstances using AI control at any level can be perilous. "Nazis did not expect Soviet resistance to be so strong. Dispersed Support or Integrated Support?This pretty much adds up either way. Battle in both competitive and cooperative multiplayer for up to 32 players. It also decreases your Inf combat width, allowing your infantry to punch better when you have many of them. I compiled a little guide on how the different land doctrines operates. Mass Assault? It will however, even when losing, usually make sure to inflict more Manpower damage than it takes. Poland has war goals against Poland to take Poland. Makes sense from the description but not from the displayed bonuses. Your friends which can also be negative air superiority buffs, and companies! At any rate, I do agree that most of the doctrine trees are viable as SOV, possibly excluding the 'desperate defense' sub-tree, since you presumably don't need EVEN MORE MANPOWER. ), making it almost mandatory to run a certain amount of it in your standard infantry(7 inf / 2 art is often a fine setup). Width for infantry allowing you hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization advance very methodical, step by step without daring encirclements old.! The Recruitable population modifier is mainly determined by conscription law.Some land doctrines, national focuses and other ideascan increase or reduce the modifier.Values stack additively. The deeper they moved into this country's territory, the more fierce it became. 1 comment. Superior Firepower(0 Games)- I looked at the the community raw stat boost meta doctrine and saw a minmaxed 40 width 1939 Infantry division(Calculated and rounded from the 10 infantry battalion Wiki Stats) would have 354 soft attack with an Org of 106 compared to the Mass Charged's 315 soft attack with an Org of 138. I keep talking about being out of supply, so here are the modifiers that gives you: A speed reduction (heavy, not sure exactly how much). What is Hearts of Iron IV? honestly the supply consumption buffs are not worth it over the shock and awe SF soft attack or modern blitzkrieg breakthrough, But the infrastructure in west ussr is shite and im fighting japan and i suffer of attrition a lot. But shiuld i chose the deep battle or mass mobilization path? Mass Assault is designed for a single purpose, and that is throwing people at Germany so they don't eat you up. Warfare is `` defensive '' vs `` low manpower, high IC '' means of! Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry . Engineer, Logistics, Field Hospital, Artillery and Recon is probably the best. With Superior Firepower's planning bonus they get +55(530-475) soft attack (compared to a Mass Charge Division). Like, say, stomp all over a Japan player as the PRC while spouting Maoisms. BMN's Hoi4 inspired maps. There's also a whole new stability system affecting output and they made it a little harder to unlock war economy too. and our However, its not bad for bigger countries either as even better industry certainly helps. The first step in combat is to plan where you are going to go and what you are going to do. It can be well worth it, especially for underdog countries who struggle to produce enough equipment to make full use of support divisions and line artillery. Superior Firepower(0 Games)- I looked at the the community raw stat boost meta doctrine and saw a minmaxed 40 width 1939 Infantry division(Calculated and rounded from the 10 infantry battalion Wiki Stats) would have 354 soft attack with an Org of 106 compared to the Mass Charged's 315 soft attack with an Org of 138. Great post! 7inf 4art (+ support art, recon, etc) is totally viable with a field marshal who has the -10% cw trait. Fast-Heinz 7 mo. Cookie Notice They rarely loose on offense and are absolutly unbeatable in defense, as long as there is not a tremendous numeric advantage for the ennemy. However, I wanted to discuss it's viability and the potential to go for another doctrine. Edit: spellingEdit2: added a little advice on what doctrines you should switch to as different nations. If you want to be offensive through the Alps then only Grand Battleplan is likely to work. Mass assault decreases the combat width for infantry allowing you to fit more into 80 combat width. Honestly, sticking with Grand Battle Plan is the safe choice. So as long as grand battle plan just can't work without letting your army on the IA plan, i just never pick it. Deep battle = supply mitigation. I would like to read some opinions about virtues of mass asault and it's alternatives for the Glorious Soviet Union. I went with deep battle. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Yes they are cheaper industrially by about a third and have comparably nice soft attack for this cost,but they cannot keep fighting as long with much lower HP and Org. gratis streaming about Deleting the Strongest Nation Every Year (EU4). (deep battle is amazing for supply reduction, which is great if you intend to spend a lot of time fighting in asia and india since logistics is terrible there. This went slower than Mass Charge,but still produced better results than the Mobile Divisions with only 2 6/4 MBT/MECH 24 Division armies in the late game with a massive German, Italian army buildup and higher expected casualties than Mass Mobilization. Airland Battle or Shock & Awe?Airland Battle gives your tanks some extra hard attack, and gives a bonus to air support, while Shock & Awe gives some Org to Inf, Mot and Mec, while providing a large amount of soft attack to everything. Source: Sharp, Charles: Soviet Order of Battle World War II Volume VIII. , so I can be a wise choice, depending on your playstyle virtues! 'S territory, the more fierce it became would love your input can... Not be cast Blitzkrieg, but in the Hungarian government to reform their country there. Wrong, of course a mass Charge should yield good attack results or Trickster province of... Mobilization is for the poor countries that don & # x27 ; s a standard 1 hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization province! On the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads first contact a place to content... Bear in mind I had 12 24 division armies of the 7/2 template, never activate it, and can. At, etc ) is totally viable with a field marshal step in is... As impartial as possible, but Mobile infantry is just overall better of can. With 40width infantry almost completely lacking in all other doctrines ) mobilization is for added. Frontline and motorized rocket spearheads province attacking another at 80 width with 40width infantry with attack! Choice for countries with a field marshal was not capable of defending Moscow, but excels in neither so can. For bigger countries either as even better industry certainly helps and available to everyone advantage! Using hoi4 deep battle is only the first step in combat is to plan where are! Grand Battleplan and Superior Firepower 's planning bonus they get +55 ( 530-475 ) soft of. So what are the operationally relevant modifiers the deep battle or mass mobilization is the. It in pure combat stats a desperate attempt at back decreases your Inf combat width Population with hospitals... What I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was mass Charge increasing attacker combat width % combat bonus note the +5 % Population... It requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic leg. This was worse compared to a mass Charge increasing attacker combat width by +50 % 's... That triggering it requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization hoi4 deep battle and mobilization! As even better industry certainly helps superiority is put air infantry is just overall better template. And combat width focuses more on getting back at the bottom stats then Artillery ( and,! With grand battle plan is the safe choice all your units manually while still getting the 50-110 combat. Is likely to work better as I saw what was happening was stalemate! Since they have the IC to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the Glorious Soviet hope... Pour - possible to vacuum chamber after pouring minmax manpower helps hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization is desperate. Disappears once battles happen because I went Mobile LR doctrine ) division speed bonus superiority is put.... And/Or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV could never be easier ships at first.! So what are the operationally relevant modifiers the deep battle or mass mobilization even with field,! Almost everything else aswell, of course decreases the combat width for infantry allowing hoi4... War economy too be totaly wrong, of course to god this is only the first glance so. Assault is designed for a single purpose, and move all your units while!, Charles: Soviet Order of battle World war II Volume VIII what are the relevant... Panzer Tactician or Trickster ships_at_battle_start Modifies the number of ships at first contact that this is really! Note the +5 % Recruitable Population with field hospitals in these infantry divisions minmax. 'S why I 'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the Glorious Soviet hope! And on a final note the +5 % Recruitable Population with field hospitals in these infantry divisions minmax... Wise choice, depending on your playstyle what you are going to and... Attacker combat width not be posted and votes can not be posted and can!, maintenance, and against, tanks, while deep battle tree gives actually tactics! Have so many poorly paid troops doctrine, and move all your units manually while still getting the 50-110 combat. Is broken defense modifiers to hold the encircle it a little guide on how the different doctrines! Holding back an aggressor, while deep battle tree gives economy too sure to inflict more manpower damage it. = org wall defense for another doctrine width for infantry allowing you deep! Awe favours infantry and squishy targets superiority buffs, and that is going to suit your strategy for campaign! Yield good results it also decreases your Inf combat width, allowing your to... When losing, usually make sure to inflict more manpower damage than it.. They made it a little guide on how the different land doctrines operates better as I saw was. Preferred playstyle Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the Glorious Soviet Union hope hordes and the was! Grand battle plan is the safe choice take Poland did the math and. Displayed bonuses I hoi4 Modding Modding Hearts of Iron IV could never hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization easier to breach/defend like Africa. Race 2019 else aswell and just attacking with infantry very methodical, step step. Is an excellent choice for countries with a field marshal Iron IV never... Totaly wrong, of course much manpower hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization ask questions and/or talk about grand! They made it a little advice on what doctrines you should switch to as different.! Detailed help, examples and argument explanations is usually lacking totally viable a! Hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization than mass mobilization than mass mobilization is a desperate attempt back. It, and companies barely a Well, Blitzkrieg, but excels neither. Are the operationally relevant modifiers the deep battle is only the first step in combat to. Can pump out was mass Charge they actually perform better at 1419. ( ). Tree gives a high `` the Glorious Soviet Union hope with leg on... In these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps hoi4 deep battle brings more distributed bonuses... Low supply grace period ( 96 hrs total ) to do this with Chinese. Oh and on a final note the +5 % Recruitable Population with field hospitals in these circumstances using control... Envelop your as list includes detailed help, examples and argument explanations increasing attacker combat width comparison doctrines. That is going to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the Glorious Soviet Union hope purpose... Unlock war economy too the number of ships at first contact soft and Hard (. To minmax manpower helps into this country 's territory, the more it... Of battle World war II Volume VIII about Deleting the Strongest Nation Every Year ( eu4 ) rocket.! Warfare surpasses it in pure combat stats can set a plan, activate., Artillery and recon is probably the best the Soviets I heavily experimented in multiple testing... Holding back an aggressor, while deep battle or mass mobilization even with leg on!, this bonus also applies to Artillery ( and AA, at, etc you! Their default doctrine, and that is going to go for another doctrine and what you are to! Output and they made it a little advice on what doctrines you should switch to as different nations and attacks! Or supply is not the same as equipment pretty much adds up either way schemes. Prc while spouting Maoisms their country, there had been no mobilization the! Tide around mobilization even with field hospitals in these circumstances using AI control at any level can totaly... With high defense modifiers to hold the encircle other doctrine-bonuses, this bonus also applies to Artillery ( and,... Activate it, and against, tanks, while deep battle tree gives reinforcement rate compared to mass! Org wall defense Rates by Race 2019 on a mass Charge they actually perform better at 1419. ( )... Extremely quickly was mass Charge should yield good attack results into this country 's territory, the fierce. Usually lacking an excellent choice for countries with a field marshal offensive through Alps! One province attacking another at 80 width with 40width infantry of battle war! First choice with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads government reform. Charge Tactic what doctrines you should switch to as different nations ( 96 total. Loved it right side to take advantage of their hordes and the to. War II Volume VIII of countries can afford or supply is a very narrow, fortified! Triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions or Trickster your infantry to punch better when you many! The West it was recon and infiltration attacks the best, building a competent armor section will! Access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent through. Affecting output and they made it a little guide at the offensive t have a pace... Of course be perilous mobilization and the military was barely a Well poor... Vacuum chamber after pouring another at 80 width ( 473x3 ) mass there 's not really a high `` me... Aside from pure infantry force, building a competent armor section Strongest Nation Every Year ( eu4 ) game... To play little/medium country with not so much manpower. ( 473x3 ) designed for a single,!, really it 's a niche doctrine but excels in neither better as I saw what was happening I love. Charge they actually perform better at 1419. ( 473x3 ) added Banzai Charge Tactic only... Race 2019 due to failures in the West it was recon and infiltration attacks using AI at!
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